Exploring the differences between Leadership and Management

Welcome to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Vantage Circle, the leading employee benefits and engagement platform. What is the difference between leadership and management? It's a topic that has been confusing for years now, with some thinking they are the same. But they are not. Do you know how, or do you care? I think we all should.

Susmita Sarma: Hello, everyone. This is Susmita from the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast, and I'm so glad to welcome Mr. Sirish Kotipalli as our guest speaker today, who is an expert in this area. Sirish is a leadership and management facilitator, a motivational speaker, and an HR consulting and OD specialist. Welcome, Sirish.

Sirish Kotipalli: Hi, Susmita. Thanks for inviting me to this session, and I'm very glad to be part of it. I hope to give the best of the answers that you are looking for, and my best wishes to you and to Vantage Circle. Thank you so much.

Susmita Sarma: So before we start, please let us know a little more about yourself and your journey in the corporate world.

Sirish Kotipalli: Sure. So I bring in around 20 years of experience overall. I did my marketing and started my career in the marketing field for two and a half years. Then I moved into recruitment, and then consulting, behavioral consulting, and later on into the corporate world. I spent a good amount of time working with various organizations, across six industries in my career, and I facilitated leadership and management development for more than 6,000 people across those six industries. I worked with various teams and clients across the globe, and I had the experience of managing teams in different locations, virtual teams, and also worked for some of the best organizations in the automotive sector, apart from sales and marketing. So that's what I bring in today. And I strongly feel that learning is my core, so when I say 20 years of experience, it's really 20 years of learning. That's where I'm proud, and there's a lot that I still need to learn and improve on.

Susmita Sarma: Okay, great. So the topic of discussion today is about exploring the differences between leadership and management. The words leadership and management are often used interchangeably, and it can be frustrating. So let's understand the differences and the similarities between leaders and managers, and figure out how to get the best of both worlds. My first question to you is, how do you define the terms leadership and management?

Sirish Kotipalli: All right, let me explain this in simple terms. One is, we all manage our day to day things. We have certain targets to complete for the day, and certain things to achieve as per set schedules. That's where we manage ourselves every day, right from the time we get up until the time we go to bed. Leadership is when someone gets inspired by the way that you're doing things, and they start following you and admiring you. That's where you lead people: you motivate them, you inspire them. So the main difference between leaders and managers, for me, is that leaders have people following them, while managers have people who work for them. Like the example I gave: I might ask my wife to get something done, or ask my children to do a piece of work, so that my day's goals are achieved while I take help from others. That's a simple way to define it. To put leadership in my own terms, I'd say it's all about exciting people and inspiring people. What I've learned in my entire career about leadership is that it's all about inspiring and exciting people toward exceptional performance by consistently challenging our own horizons. The minute I say this is where I want to achieve, it's not going to end there; something else is going to come up. Do I have a vision to look beyond? When I'm able to look beyond and say, this is something I need to achieve, or I need to make a difference for a greater cause, that's where people get inspired and excited to see that vision, and they follow you. That's where you become an effective leader.

Susmita Sarma: So what are the main differences between leadership and management that you'd want to point out, considering the workday?

Sirish Kotipalli: Well, if I look at the main differences, a lot of people have described this, but personally, I feel leaders always work toward their vision. They create a vision and work toward it. However, if you look at managers, they work toward goals that have already been set. Let's take the example of an organization where the CEO has a vision, certain strategies are derived from it, and people are given a set of goals. You see the rest of the teams, the followers, working there. Some people are following the CEO's vision, excited to see the future, while a certain set of people believe it will make a difference to them personally, so they become more creative and work around that. That's where you can see people being managed and people being led. Below the CEO level, there are set goals for departments, functions, and teams, and everyone works toward achieving them. That's management, making sure the goals of the organization are achieved. But the people who talk about the CEO's vision, who inspire people all around, and who get the best of the teams to work toward it, that's where leadership comes in: working toward the vision. One thing I strongly believe from my career: leaders are like catalysts. They are change agents. They make things happen. They are innovative and creative, and they look at making things much more efficient, inspiring people to do that. Managers, on the other hand, maintain the status quo, and that's where you see a big difference, one that a lot of organizations are struggling with. At the same time, leaders take a lot of risks. Whatever it might be, they're ready to take a risk, ready to take a leap, but they're also very decisive. They're effective at looking at every piece of information required and then making calculated, good risks. Managers aren't like that; they try to control risk and minimize it. They look at ways to minimize risk and ensure it doesn't create a big hassle for the organization's success. We also talk a lot about how leaders grow personally and help others grow while they grow, but managers rely on the existing, proven skills of their people, and that's where we see the biggest difference. The most important thing is about relationships: leaders build relationships, and managers manage relationships. Managers more often create the systems and processes to make sure goals are achieved, and manage the relationships within that. Leaders, on the other hand, try to be very empathetic. They're humble, they listen to people, they give feedback. These are some of the things they use, and they communicate all the time. That's a major difference.

Susmita Sarma: So does this distinction matter? How does it help them to be more productive?

Sirish Kotipalli: Excellent question. Like I said, everyone is managing, we're all managing all the time. But then, consciously or subconsciously, we're also leading certain sets of people, because that's where people get inspired by the way we do things. This distinction definitely matters, because when we're looking at a greater value or purpose to be achieved for mankind or for organizations, leadership is all about empowering, inspiring, and motivating through vision, and facilitating creativity and innovation. It's all about bringing out the best effectiveness in the people who are following us, or to whom we're responsible and accountable. Management, on the other hand, is about controlling risk, managing processes, planning, coordinating, and directing; a lot of things come into it. So what's the major difference that makes people ask whether it's required? I'd say leadership comes naturally. People try to understand the skills needed to lead and motivate the people around them, and it all starts with self management. If I'm able to manage myself much better, then the question becomes: can this person manage a group of people? When I talk about managing a group of people, I mean managing my own feelings, emotions, and thoughts, and the decisions I make in my day to day life. If I'm able to manage myself well, self management is really good, then someone could say this person could manage a group of people, because this person interacts well with the people around them. So we can take this person to lead a certain group of people, and that could make a big difference. Then there's a need for someone to lead a group of people, align them, give them a path, and help them achieve results. That's where leadership comes in, while this person keeps motivating and inspiring that group of people, the way they themselves manage and lead their own life. So leading starts from the self, and then it extends to the people around.

Susmita Sarma: Yeah, so we often hear bosses telling their team managers to lead their team for better performance. For me, that sounds more like a management thing, like managing performance, rather than a leadership act. But again, for the team managers, it can feel like both, because without showing the team how to get the job done, without cheering them up, or without all those extra motivations, the work doesn't get managed easily. So, of course, as you've already said, there are some differences between managers and leaders, but are leadership and management complementary? What do you say?

Sirish Kotipalli: Right, let's take this example. Today we're looking at making this world happier, easier, more effective. Simple word, and I'm using "effective." Is there any limit to that, or any criteria we could say is perfect? No. So we keep looking at making things more effective, and there's no limit to that. Similarly, when we're looking at the performance of an organization, an individual, or a team, all of these are things where we're trying to make things effective. So why are we looking at making things more effective? The more I can manage and lead myself effectively, and the more I can manage and lead teams and organizations more effectively, there's always additional value we can create. So performance automatically comes into the picture. Organizations keep asking, can we improve performance? What do they mean by that? Do they mean the way we're creating products and services to be more effective? Or do they mean the value we're creating out of our services, competencies, processes, or quality systems, to make them more effective? They're always talking about that additional value we can bring in, and that's where performance comes into the picture. Let's take a bit more of an example. Does performance really matter? Take Vantage Circle, for instance. Don't you think Vantage Circle always looks to get the best out of the people it hires, out of the things it does, out of the engagements it creates? There's always additional value being created there. That's where people talk about performance. And moreover, leadership comes in when people come out by themselves and start giving more. I believe Vantage looks at how to bring out the best employee engagement and how those people could create value, and that's where the focus starts.

Susmita Sarma: Right, right. So how do you know when to use leadership skills and when to take on the role of a manager? Under what circumstances?

Sirish Kotipalli: Excellent. There isn't really a fixed point of "when do we use leadership skills" versus "when do we use management," because both are interlinked. If I tell you where management comes in or where leadership comes in, the slight difference we saw earlier between managers and leaders is this: don't managers need to have targets, and don't leaders need to have a target too? Don't managers and leaders both need to have control at times? Don't leaders need to have execution skills as well, while managers need planning skills, and so on, when we talk about all of these things? So what's the difference between leaders and managers when we talk about the way people see the vision and align themselves to it, while communicating with teams, making the communication process transparent and clear within the team and the organization, and exciting, motivating, and inspiring people through their actions? That's what leadership looks like. That's when we see someone doing a great job, or a team that needs someone to come in and lead them. Let's say, in my organization, there's a team that isn't performing well. I see a lot of potential in them, and I know the team could excel much more, but I see that the manager isn't managing the team well, isn't behaving the way the person is supposed to. In that situation, I'd rather want someone to take on that manager's role and lead the team, inspiring them through their actions and becoming a role model. That's where fine tuning the existing skills of the manager through learning programs comes in, where the person could maximize their leadership skills and enhance the entire team. So we need a leader for that particular team, and we also need someone to manage things, while inspiring people to deliver better performance.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So by now it's clear that leadership is more toward people, and management is more toward resources, and they go hand in hand. But is there a way you'd still say leadership is more essential, or better, than management, or vice versa?

Sirish Kotipalli: Definitely, I think leadership is very essential. We lead our own lives, so it all starts within us, as I said. While we lead ourselves, we also need to ensure we persuade the people around us, so that's very important too. Today we talk about having leaders across organizations, but what we mean is that each and every individual is leading themselves and also helping the organization move forward. So I personally feel, yes, leadership is very important, and it's required. But the way people see it and differentiate it from managing, and how that makes a difference to them personally and to others, matters a lot.

Susmita Sarma: So during a crisis like the one we're in currently, where most employees are working from home, would you still say leadership is more important than management?

Sirish Kotipalli: Yeah, that's a very good question. I personally feel there's a lot of emotional strain that people are going through while working from home and trying to manage their office work. Suddenly, people working from home are juggling both work and home responsibilities, and there's a lot of stress they're going through. There are no breaks. Kids' schooling is also happening from home, so people have to work while also handling a lot of housework. With all these sudden changes, people are going through a lot of emotional and even physical strain. One person told me they're having body pains because they've been mopping, cleaning vessels, and helping their wife while she's cooking, taking care of the kids' studies, and working herself. So everyone is managing, but if you notice, suddenly a lot of things came into their bucket list that they weren't prepared for; it's a sudden shift. So when we talk about leading here, I think it's about looking at creative ways of doing things, discussing them, figuring out what needs to be done, how it needs to be done, and prioritizing accordingly. These are some self management skills and commitment. And further, the most important thing is that leaders are also looking at the kind of problems their teams are going through, and they're facing a lot of problems themselves. Especially in a situation like this, they need to communicate a lot. Ideally, I need to be more stable mentally and physically, and then take care of my team. So leaders are going through a lot of struggle too, and I believe it's a kind of new learning for a lot of people. For me too, it's about looking at how this can really make organizations more productive.

Susmita Sarma: So what would be your greatest advice on leadership and management to bring the change we always wanted in our workplaces?

Sirish Kotipalli: I'd say, be more empathetic to the people around you, whether it's your spouse, your kids, your teams, or your leaders who might be putting pressure on you because they have their own targets to hit. And remember you also have your own teams who are going through a lot themselves, so be empathetic about what everyone is going through. That's number one. Number two, please communicate. If you ask me, I'd say every leader needs to bring in about five or six competencies at this point in time. First, communicate, communicate, and communicate. Keep communicating, make things transparent, encourage people to talk to you, but don't intrude on their personal space while doing so; give them space as well. Second, be adaptable. Try to understand how things are working, and don't say "I'm used to working this way, I can't do this," because that won't work. You need to be flexible, and be swift about making things happen faster; laziness and procrastination won't work. So be swift and adaptable, that's the second one. The third is self control: your emotional state of mind. How well can you manage your emotional state? Meditate, be mindful, that's very important. The fourth is stay connected: stay connected with people through every means you have, whether it's social media, online, or the telephone. Be connected with your people, talk to them, and reach out to their families if possible. The fifth is being creative. This isn't something we're used to, so we need to figure out things creatively, not just quick fixes, though if those really work, you're welcome to use them too. Being creative in the way you do things really matters. And the last, the sixth, is decisiveness. That plays a very important role: look at the data, look at what's happened in the past, learn from those experiences, and see what's the best decision you can make, whether something needs to be changed or altered.

Susmita Sarma: Okay, great. So any books or resources you'd want to refer people to, to learn more about leadership and management?

Sirish Kotipalli: I strongly believe in a book that talks about starting with why: understanding why you're doing what you're doing. That's number one, and it really helps people gain more clarity on what they're doing and how they're doing it. The other one is always my favorite, a book by Jim Collins about moving organizations from good performance to great performance. These two are always my favorite books.

Susmita Sarma: Okay, the best. So there's a lot more to learn from you, Sirish. Please let us know the best way to reach you, and we'll talk to you again.

Sirish Kotipalli: Well, I'm available on LinkedIn. Sirish Kotipalli is what you can search, and people can reach out to me there. I'm also reachable by email if anyone wants to connect. I'll be happy to have a chat, and whatever best learnings I have, I'm happy to share, while I'm still learning a lot myself.

Susmita Sarma: Thank you, Sirish. That was an amazing conversation with you. We hope to meet you again. Thanks for joining.

Sirish Kotipalli: Thank you so much, Susmita. I'm so thankful to you and to Vantage Circle, and I wish you all the very best and a lot of success. I believe you'll come up with more innovative tools and techniques that organizations can definitely benefit from. My best wishes to all of you. Thank you so much. Stay safe. My best wishes. Good day.

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