Coaching the Next Generation of Diverse Leaders

Welcome to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Vantage Circle.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Welcome back to another episode of the Vantage Influencers Podcast. I'm your host Sanjeevani, and today we are unpacking a topic that feels especially relevant in today's workplaces: mentoring and coaching, and the real role they play in developing diverse leaders. Too often these two are spoken about as if they're the same thing. But when you dig deeper, the nuances become quite clear, and so does their impact on equity, culture, and retention. To help us explore this, I'm joined by someone who knows the space inside out, Lindiwe Davis, Google's Culture Coach and also a podcaster herself. She has spent years working with leaders and teams and knows how to build inclusive, thriving workplaces. And I couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with. So, Lindiwe, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Lindiwe Davis: Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Before we dive into the main conversation, I'd love for our listeners to get to know the person behind the work. So could you share a little bit about your professional journey so far and what led you to where you are today?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much for inviting me here. And thank you so much for pronouncing my name. So many people, we have these beautiful names, and sometimes I know it's hard for people to get them right, but that's part of being inclusive, right? Wanting to make sure that we name people the thing that they want to be named. So thank you for that, I appreciate it.

But I have been working for the last 30 years, 27 of those years have been in corporate America. I started this journey in the financial industry, moved over to marketing and startups, and then landed myself in tech. And of course, I'm also a founder, of a company called FutureState Collective, which focuses on coaching and consulting, and of course, me being a speaker, a moderator, and a media interviewer. That's my passion work, because I care so much about getting people into this place of understanding their own voice. That's the crux of my coaching, the message of my coaching and consulting when I'm going into companies, or maybe I'm doing one-on-one coaching: your voice is very powerful, and if you understood your level of courage, you would use your voice according to your level of courage, so that you can better activate in your role, better activate your community, and better activate situations where things are just not quite right, which in corporate America, there are plenty of things that are a little tricky or challenging. So I have worked across several industries, marketing, the financial industry, tech, and now I'm building a company as well for myself.

But I can tell you right now, when it comes to coaching, or when you are an advisor or even a sponsor for someone, the biggest thing I've learned over these last three decades is that people just want to be acknowledged. And I think that's super important. You have to acknowledge the person, you have to acknowledge where they want to go, and you also have to acknowledge the challenges they face. Between you and I, we're going to face different challenges. However, because we both identify as women, that's a whole other challenge as well. So I think understanding people, acknowledging people, and then being willing to acknowledge where it is they're coming from and where they're trying to go, these are foundational practices, things I try to enable in other people, which is the crux of my journey all these years.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Absolutely, very well said. And thank you for sharing your journey with us, I'm sure listeners would love to know you more. Now, with your permission, I'd like to dive straight into today's topic. I often notice that when these conversations come up, people tend to use mentoring and coaching almost interchangeably, as if they're the same thing. But when we're talking about creating diverse leaders, I feel like the nuance really matters, because each approach can bring very different outcomes. So, in your view, do mentoring and coaching actually serve different purposes in this context?

Lindiwe Davis: Yes, they do, and I want to talk a little bit about both. When we're thinking about inclusive communities, or just inclusive organizational cultures on uneven teams, if you're thinking about a mentor, let's say you're on a team right now, and you notice that maybe the team is new. Sometimes we find ourselves in organizations where there are a lot of reorgs and changes, and you land on a team that's still building its culture, so you don't really know what happened before. It's a good idea to seek out a mentor. They don't have to be on that team, they don't have to be in the org, they can be elsewhere in the company, or a mentor can even be outside the company entirely. But the purpose of a mentor is someone who can sit there, listen to what's going on in your day-to-day, and give you guidance around the work you're doing. The mentor should also know a bit more about your work, especially if they're inside the company you work for. In other words, this person has a first-class ticket to what you're doing on a daily basis, so they can speak to the company and speak to the work you're doing, meaning that when you're not in the room, they can speak on your behalf.

This also brings up another part of the conversation, which is a sponsor. A sponsor is different, in the sense that this person is really going to speak on your behalf across the board. A sponsor could be someone who says, "I know this person, I know their character, I know they've worked really hard," and then walks into a room with other leaders and talks about your work clearly, even if they're not as close to it day-to-day, because they know you and your character. So you start to see the difference.

Then we loop in coaching. Coaching is an aspect where the person doesn't have to be at your company, they don't even have to be in your industry. If you find yourself needing a coach, this person is really going to look at your entire portfolio of life, your entire breadth of work experience, and then start talking to you about your experiences, your education, your goals, your life goals. The coach is meant to take all of that packaging and help you synthesize it down, so you can get more clear and more aligned about your own personal goals, outside of the company you may be working for, or the company you're building, or the teams and structures you're used to. That coach helps you synthesize all of it into a beautiful package for yourself, so you can see more clearly and feel more aligned within yourself.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Absolutely, that's really interesting. And if we zoom in a little, especially for employees who come from underrepresented groups, the dynamics shift again. I believe access is often the missing piece, and a really strong mentoring relationship can sometimes open doors that people might not otherwise even know exist, let alone access. So for employees from underrepresented groups, what does a strong mentoring relationship unlock that they might not always get access to otherwise?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, so with a strong mentoring relationship, especially going back to what I said, if your mentor is inside the company and knows the company and the company culture, that person having this kind of access to you and what you're going through on that team or in that organization is going to be very key, because with the way things are moving professionally right now, across various ecosystems and industries, things are changing very rapidly. That mentor is going to be right there with you through all of those changes happening within your team, your organization, and your industry.

The first thing that can be unlocked is understanding the gaps in what you might need. If you were talking to your mentor and said, "I want to find out more about AI, I want to find out how I can use AI more within my job," then you and the mentor can look at what the company is already offering in terms of training. A lot of times, when you come into companies, whether you're part of an underrepresented group or gender, that information isn't loud. Sometimes you have to track it down yourself, and there's no community available, no employee resource group, sometimes not even real training set up, you just have to get out there and get it. So a mentor helps you unlock the resources you need to succeed at your job and to make the most of whatever education you're trying to use within the company.

The second thing to keep in mind is benefits. A lot of times, when we get into large companies, we don't know the pathway to actually using our benefits. But a mentor, someone who's been there and understands the company, the culture, and the offerings, can help you unlock how to use your benefits. As someone coming from an underrepresented group, or an underrepresented gender, this is super important. You know the surface-level benefits from your offer letter, but there's more than likely a whole slew of things going on within the company, and when you're connected to the right people, you can unlock some of those things for yourself and how you want to use your time as you continue to grow.

The third thing is network. With a mentor, you can unlock additional people attached to them. A mentor can sit down and listen to your story, talk through what your day-to-day looks like or what's going on with your current project, and they may know someone in their network who can help or assist you, or give you another perspective to help you get to execution on whatever project or program you're building. Those three things are super important when it comes to succeeding at a company, and they can make the difference for someone from an underrepresented group, because a lot of times you may feel like the fish out of water. Sometimes you're the only person from your community in that company. That happens. If the company doesn't have an employee resource group, your mentor becomes the person who helps you unlock things around you that you might not have had access to before.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Right, you've highlighted a few very important points. I'd like you to elaborate a little more on how we can use mentors for better networking, because some believe networking is something people from underrepresented groups really need. I believe that strongly. How can they reach out to their mentors to get better at networking, if the mentor themselves doesn't fully get it either?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, and this is very key, you bring up a great point: even mentors aren't necessarily going to have every single answer, connection, or know-how for every single thing. But let's say you have a mentor who's connected to a lot of different groups and leaders. They may know about something coming up and say, "Oh, you should go to that, you should attend." Maybe it's something internal to the company that was advertised, and they say, "You should come along, I'm actually going to be there." It could be an in-person event or a virtual one. But if that's not the case, I'd say paying attention to the communications coming out of your company is a super key thing. A lot of times we get a lot of emails and aren't really paying attention to what's going on. So if your organization sends out newsletters, for example, a lot of times those newsletters mention small events and get-togethers. It's a good idea to tap into those.

The second thing is that a lot of companies will have employee resource groups. They may call them something different, but these are groups that cater to specific communities: a women's employee resource group, a Black employee resource group, an Asian employee resource group, an LGBTQIA+ employee resource group, a neurodiverse employee resource group. A lot of communities can exist within your company, and they often host an extreme amount of events for you to get to know people and learn more about the culture. For the record, employee resource groups aren't meant just for that community, they're meant for everyone to come into the fold and build friendships, networks, and community. Pay close attention to what those groups are doing, because there are a lot of amazing events happening.

Another way to start networking throughout the company is training. There's training happening all the time inside most companies. Let's say you sign up for a training, it's not a requirement, it's not part of a policy, but you notice the company or your organization is hosting one. Why not sign up? There will be other people in that space, and it's a good idea to work with them and then reach out to the trainer, get to know them. Networking isn't always this formal thing where you go somewhere after work and have a drink. Sometimes it's literally, "I went to this training," "I went to this company event," "I went to this internal community-building exercise," "I went to a lunch and learn," which a lot of companies host. There are broader ways to expand your reach. But I think one of the things about networking is that if you're someone who doesn't like starting those conversations because you're not comfortable or practiced at it, start with the small things. Start with those smaller events being hosted within the company before you go to an external networking mixer that's more informal. Start with a training, start by working with your mentor to see if they've heard about things you'd be interested in, so you can start building that networking muscle. Just remember, when it comes to networking, nothing should be forced. It's really just meeting people who share your interests, or meeting people who do things differently than you and having an open mind. It doesn't have to be transactional, it can literally be conversational. If something can build from that, let it build.

Sanjeevani Saikia: I love the way you put that, and all the points you've mentioned really require the other person to be proactive in nature. It's not always the mentor or coach coming to you, sometimes you have to go to them.

Lindiwe Davis: That's right. You have to reach out, and at the same time stay proactive and aware.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Moving on, even with the best intentions, mentoring or coaching programs can end up reinforcing the very biases they were meant to break. It's that fine line between supporting growth and unintentionally reproducing old patterns. I believe organizations really must pause and ask themselves: are we truly working to level the playing field, or are we just repeating the same old patterns, not creating equity but recycling privilege, if I could say so?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, absolutely, and that thought process is true. A lot of times there's a mentoring program being built out in a company, maybe with additional coaching built out by HR. The one thing I've noticed over all these years is that if you don't have the right people sitting in the positions building out or leading those programs, it's not going to work. If you're building a program meant to support employees of any kind, whether we're talking about underrepresented groups, gender, or intersectional identities, there has to be a level of cultural competence in the person who owns building that out, and in everyone surrounding that person, the partners too, they all need cultural competence to build those programs out well.

The second thing is that those folks need to understand communication from a place of cultural competence, clarity, consistency, and care. All of those things fold into how you understand how to treat people, because it's very key. If you're building out mentoring or additional coaching, you as the person owning and driving that, your partners helping you, and your VP sponsor, all need to be in the mindset of their own level of education on what it is and why they're doing it. You have to have a level of cultural competence, care, consistency, and concern for the people you're building those programs for. Those are foundational attributes you need. Before you even get started, you have to ask: who are the right people to build this out, and are we doing it for the right reasons? Is it actually serving them? What's the impact going to be? You can't just build out mentoring and say you did it, that's never going to work. I'm sure many of us have been in places where you thought, "Oh yeah, they have a mentoring program," joined it, and then thought, "Wait, what is this? This has nothing to do with assisting employees," or it's just not that helpful. You have to be mindful of these things as you think more broadly about how to help communities, groups, and employees as a whole.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Now, when we bring younger employees into the picture, especially Gen Z, the expectations around mentoring shift quite a bit. They're not always looking for the traditional top-down model. Many of them really value authenticity, two-way learning, and even reverse mentoring as part of the relationship. It's interesting to think about how generational perspectives are reshaping this space.

Lindiwe Davis: First of all, reverse mentoring is an excellent term. It's not exactly new, but a lot more people are finding out about it. Reverse mentoring originally started out as younger generations coming out of school and into companies being partnered with people who had been at the company a long time, or people with an extreme amount of experience, and putting them together to see how that relationship could be impactful for both parties.

But in the last couple of years, I worked on reverse mentorship as a program myself, where anyone, whether younger, a graduate, an intern, or an experienced employee, would be partnered with someone in an executive role, so the two could understand each other's pathway and how they could align. Because more than likely, if I'm sitting in a leadership role and someone just out of graduate school doesn't look like me or belong to my community, but we somehow ended up in the same place, that can be a powerful thing for both people to learn from each other.

So when it comes to the younger generation, interns and graduates coming into companies, it's very key to give them a microphone, because these folks are coming into a space that may feel quite traditional relative to their generation and the limited work experience they have. But coming out of school, they carry a larger social footprint, because of digital spaces and social media. They're tapped into that side, and now they need to connect with people who've been tapped into the business side of things, the behaviors within business spaces, and it can end up being a beautiful merge of two worlds coming together to better understand how to align with the work they're performing.

A lot of times, if you put those two people together, they come up with ways to be more effective in their work, because now you have someone with practice working alongside someone who just came out of theory. Think about these two people bridging theory and practice together, that can be very powerful in and of itself. And if you're working with someone just out of school, an intern, or someone with less than ten, or even five, years of work experience, there's a lot to be learned, because their mind hasn't yet settled into old patterns. They have fresh ideas, they're ready for innovation, they're excited. Not that the experienced person isn't, but when these two people come together, it can be a really beautiful outlook on how you bridge outcomes with what you want to put into that relationship, project, or program.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Yes, absolutely, on point. I think your response is very much aligned with what Gen Z would love, but at the same time, with what employers would be looking for as well. So, Lindiwe, since you're Google's own Culture Coach, am I allowed to ask you something regarding Google's culture?

Lindiwe Davis: I would say, how about you ask it from the tech space versus Google specifically?

Sanjeevani Saikia: Okay, great, yes, amazing. So there are many tech companies, not just Google, where culture is really talked about. People talk about how supportive the entire culture is, and mentoring and coaching seem to play a big role in that, because they don't just shape someone's career trajectory, they ripple out into the culture itself. People show up at work every day depending on whether they feel like they belong, and even how they stick around. So in your view, how do mentoring and coaching move beyond personal growth to really shape company culture overall?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, within the tech space, there's a lot of change going on, there's always change going on within tech and most industries. But when it comes to mentoring, sponsorship, or coaching, those things are really set up to ensure that culture doesn't sit still. Because people are changing, and if people are changing, culture has to change. If innovation is growing in the tech space, culture is often changing too, and you need those things in place. You need mentorship, you need coaching in place, to ensure people aren't being held back from growing.

I brought up AI earlier. AI is becoming part of a lot of different company cultures, and just life in general. So if there's coaching and mentorship around how to use that tool within your role, and it's also allowed, that's a part of culture shifting too. Having mentorship and coaching available lets an employee understand: yes, you have permission to use AI, yes, you have permission to learn more, yes, you can join these trainings, to make sure you're also moving forward. So mentorship and coaching are one of the ways you move culture forward through innovation, if you have those programs in place.

Another thing to think about with culture is: where are you trying to move it, and how are you going to use these two things to do so? Access is a big part of that. Making sure people have access through these programs is going to be a game changer. If you have a bunch of amazing engineers, designers, or program managers getting into tech, why not set it up so they're partnered with someone automatically when they come into the company? Why not set up a pathway so they know that once they join, they'll already have somebody partnered with them, someone who'll be a great mentor for the first six months of their journey and their role? More than likely they'll be matched with someone who does something similar, so it doesn't feel like they're flailing around trying to track down all the information about the company and their role. Set up a pathway program for people getting into companies, specifically in tech, on a six-month alignment path, and make sure people have access to all the tools, resources, and training. A lot of times we get into companies and it takes weeks and weeks to get access to things. Make sure people have access to the tools, resources, guides, and principles you're operating within. That's a way to grow culture. When people feel included, when they feel like they have access, when they feel like they have permission, that's where you start to see changes in the work being produced and in the people themselves.

Sanjeevani Saikia: So then in the tech space itself, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges any mentor has to face when it comes to mentoring their people, particularly in tech?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, I think when it comes to mentors in the tech space, the challenge is: what do they have permission to teach, what do they have permission to access, in order to help and assist an employee? I like to call it button-pushing power, because a mentor isn't a human resources specialist, so they may not have the same access as someone working in people operations or human resources. That's going to be a challenge, because let's say an employee comes to a mentor and tells them about some challenging teammates. The mentor can give guidance on what you can do, what you should do, how to file a complaint, even an anonymous one. But because they don't work in HR, they may not have the same access as someone in a human resources position to ensure all the steps are followed. They can still give you guidance on how to get to where you need to go, but access is definitely one challenge.

Another challenge with mentors at companies is that the person mentoring employees has their own workload. Balancing your workload while doing this work as a volunteer, because that's essentially what it is, takes time, patience, and organization. It's a good idea to have people with a willingness to be all three of those things. But sometimes you get into being a mentor and find out your bandwidth is too small, and that can be a challenge too, potentially leaving a shortage of mentors to fill the program you're trying to build.

The third challenge I think about is culture. A lot of times you raise your hand and say, "Yes, I want to be a mentor," but you haven't fully thought through some of the folks who may come through that mentoring program. Sometimes there's a language barrier, sometimes it's just cultural behaviors innate to a person from a certain community, and that mentor has to get up to speed naturally in understanding this person, or other individuals they may be mentoring. That may be a challenge in the beginning, but I think it's something people can actually turn into a positive outcome during the relationship. It just takes some time.

Sanjeevani Saikia: That makes so much sense. And we're reaching the end of today's episode, Lindiwe. I want to shift gears and look a little into the future. The workplace is shifting so fast, hybrid work has already redefined how we connect, and AI is starting to shape learning and development in ways we couldn't have imagined a few years ago. It feels like the way we build leaders tomorrow might look very different from what we're used to. So as a final thought, what do you imagine mentoring and coaching will look like for the next generation of diverse leaders?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, I think with this new wave of innovation and technology, particularly around AI, there's something about using this tool to the advantage of someone who's mentoring and coaching folks. If you find yourself mentoring someone who doesn't do the same work as you, why not do some research, why not find a way to use AI as a tool to help you pull reference points and data, and synthesize all of that into something you can use for your own way of approaching mentoring someone in whatever space that is? When you're coaching, talking to, or mentoring someone, it's always nice to have additional information. I don't think it's ever enough to just have your own experiences when it comes to the people you're trying to impact. It's good to have your own experience, you need that, but you also need research. Using those tools in a deeper manner, and bridging your experience and research together when you're mentoring and coaching someone, is going to be super helpful, and I think that's where both of these spaces are headed.

Make no mistake, a person who's a mentor is often a coach as well, and although you can differentiate the two, a lot of times you'll find that someone who's a coach is also a mentor. I happen to be one of those people, I'm a coach, a consultant, many things, but I also have a history of mentoring other people, and I think that ties into how I think about the future state of work. We're not in the era of just going into the office nine to five, staring at bland walls painted green and salmon. We're in a time now where hybrid work and remote work are things we could and should still be doing. Studies show people are much more effective and productive, honestly, when working remotely, but hybrid work is also effective, because people get to split their time between the office and balancing their home life while still getting their jobs done. There's a wellness factor there.

So with mentors and coaches, as it relates to underrepresented groups as well, there's a wellness factor attached to that. Having people in place so employees feel like they have somewhere to sit down and talk through their day or their performance, without their leader or their teammates present, matters. The wellness factor is super important, and having someone who understands why wellness matters to how you gravitate and elevate yourself is also going to be part of future work. It's already becoming, if not already here, it's just going to get a little louder, the wellness factor.

Sanjeevani Saikia: True. Lindiwe, you've responded to all my questions very beautifully and very lucidly, thank you so much for joining in, I really loved this conversation. Unfortunately, we've come to the end of today's conversation, Lindiwe. Before we wrap up, is there a final message you'd like to leave with our listeners? And what's the best way for them to connect with you if they'd like to continue the conversation?

Lindiwe Davis: Yeah, one of the things I want for all of you listening is that I want you to remember that you deserve a good life, you deserve to live a really good life. And don't ever forget that your voice is powerful. It doesn't have to be the loudest thing in the room, you just have to know how to use it, based on your level of courage. That's what's going to get you to activate in the spaces you care about, and to be more helpful and positively impactful to other people. But never forget that you deserve a good life, no matter what you're going through, no matter how hard the challenges may be. Everything can still work out for you.

As far as where to find me, you can find me on LinkedIn using my full name. You can find me on IG using my first name, L-I-N-D-I-W-E underscore speaks. You can also find me through my business channel on IG, FutureState underscore Collective. So with that, I so appreciate you having me here, I had a great time, and hopefully I get to hear from some of your listeners too.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Yes, absolutely. My biggest takeaway from this final message of yours is that our voice is our real power.

Lindiwe Davis: That's right.

Sanjeevani Saikia: We all deserve a good, dignified life.

Lindiwe Davis: That's right, you beautifully said that.

Sanjeevani Saikia: Thank you so much, Lindiwe, once again, for joining. It was a pleasure to have you on the show.

Lindiwe Davis: It was wonderful meeting you, thank you so much.

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